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Post by mjmacneur on Aug 14, 2011 13:38:54 GMT -4
I was so happy after stumbling upon Daviona’s blog posting. The whole time I was reading the novel I kept questioning Pedro’s decision on marrying his “true loves” sister. All I could ask myself was, “what was he thinking?”
Daviona made several spot on points throughout her blog, one being if Pedro’s love for Tita was actually all that it was coughed up to be. In writing my first blog I sided with Pedro and Tita’s young love. I really believed that it could be that one of a kind Cinderella story. After reading her blog I started to see a different side to Pedro. If his love for Tita was all that mattered, how could he possibly begin to think that marrying her sister would do them any good? Marrying your true love’s sister just screams problems all over it. Not only does Tita have to worry about Mama Elena keeping the two apart, but now she has her sister to further complicate things.
They say love will always find you if you wait. Tita did just that, she waited and waited for Pedro. If Pedro truly loved her he would’ve found a way to be with her and only her. He would have found a way around all the complications, and restraints. But because he doesn’t both Tita and Rosaura end up sadly heartbroken at some point in the novel. Pedro on the other hand gets to live the best of both worlds. I’m not too sure I see this as true love any longer.
All in all if it wasn’t for Tita’s cultural traditions keeping the two apart they could have gone on to live their fairytale ending. But that would never make for an interesting story, and Esquirel knew that.
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Post by anastasiawilliams on Aug 14, 2011 13:41:37 GMT -4
I really liked Rachel’s point that Mama Elena was only trying to protect Rosaura, but I think the point could be made that she only wanted to protect Tita, also. Was her method harsh to an outsider’s eye? Well, yeah. When I first read the book, I remember thinking “Mama Elena was denied her love, so why would she ever do the same to Tita?” But what did Mama Elena do when she was denied her love? She had her love’s baby anyway. Keeping that secret must have deeply hurt her, and she would never want the same to happen to Tita. In Mama Elena’s mind, the tradition had to be kept, but keeping Tita away from Pedro was her way of trying to keep Tita from being hurt like she was. Later in the book, when Tita believes that she is having Pedro’s baby, Mama Elena’s ghost appears, telling Tita that the baby is cursed. This seems to be just another disapproving attack at Tita, but Mama Elena could be warning Tita of the difficulties of raising the child of someone who she was not supposed to be with. Mama Elena has not had an easy life until now. But at the point in time that the story is being told, she is doing very well for herself. The harshness that she shows Tita may not be that of hatred, but of her not wanting her daughter to grow “soft,” and wanting her to be a strong woman. If Mama Elena had not criticized her daughter’s cooking, perhaps she wouldn’t continue to get better. Mama Elena criticizes not necessarily to hurt Tita, but to help her grow.
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Post by maggiecrawford on Aug 14, 2011 14:41:01 GMT -4
I like Donovan's post but some things did not sit right with me. Love is not really something you can fit into a couple of questions though those are good starts. It is completely true that love is discovered by an individual, No one can tell you about love. Donovan forgot about all the other forms of love though. What about familial love or love of an object? Don’t these loves need to be addressed? Tita had no love for her mother but she did love gertrudis, her sister. She was the one commenting on Tita and Pedro’s love. Shouldn’t she get recognition? The questions themselves are in fact answered for Tita but her love of Pedro never really left. All love after that would be affected and tampered with that love, such as her love for Roberto. She became even more distraught because she had neither Pedro nor Roberto to love. She also wanted to hate Roberto but she could not thus making her love more intense. Donovan said the Esquivel used cooking to convey emotions and show growth. I completely agree with that. As Tita’s emotions fluxiated with intensity so did the effects of the food. Another point I disagree with is h said Tita grew into her love with Pedro but she did not. Their love was constant points of intensity with the occasional subsiding of passion. They fell in love at first sight. What grew was the inability to hide their love. It eventually became rosaura ignoring their passion and them hiding in a closet. I am also not so sure on how pure THIS particular love is. It mostly seemed like a lot of lust. I did not notice them conversing a whole lot. Though if this is what they pass for love I fully support that. Though some of my post does not reflect this I really liked Donovan’s post.
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Post by grahamgardner on Aug 14, 2011 15:42:42 GMT -4
“The truth! The Truth! Look, Tita, the simple truth is that the truth does not exist; it all depends on a person’s point of view.”
I disagree with Brooke's view that this quote is entirely true. In her first posting, Brooke states that we all see right and wrong in different ways. While this is true, this should not confuse this as the truth changing depending on how we see it. There are differing perspectives on certain issues, such as Pedro's love for Rosaura and Tia, but there is only one truth. Even though Rosaura believed that Pedro loved her, her perspective does not make it true. The "simple truth" is that Pedro loved Tia, not Rosaura, and ones perspective does not change the truth.
Brooke uses Hitler as an example of right and wrong differing from one's perspective. While Hitler may have believed that he was doing good, it does not change the underlying truth of the situation. The truth of the matter is that the Holocaust was one the most atrocious events in the history of the world, and no perspective can change that underlying truth.
The quote that Brooke chose to use states that there is no underlying truth in the world. That everything is a matter of perspective and that is no greater truth. This could not be more wrong. While a person's perception of right and wrong may change in certain situations, that does not mean that there is no absolute truth. If one convinces themselves that extramarital affairs, like the actions displayed by Pedro and Tia are right, that does not make it true. People can justify their behaviors many ways if they try hard enough, but that does not make their justifications true.
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Post by benelser on Aug 14, 2011 16:21:55 GMT -4
While I enjoyed Sara's voice and enthusiasm in her post, there are many things about it that I take issue with. First, it seemed as if her ideas were very choppy and did not flow as well as they could. She would present one idea, and then take it back in the following sentence, making it rather hard to follow. This writing strategy, in the end, brought the credibility of her ideas down as it was very hard in the end to come across what point she was trying to prove. For example, in the second paragraph she states that Tita might be pregnant, and then later at the end states that she for sure is pregnant. But the book clearly states that Tita was never pregnant and mearly had a missed period.
As for her ideas on the book, I took particular issue with her analysis of John. She states that she could see John as becoming hostile after finding out about her affair with Pedro and resorting to beating her or killing Pedro. I personally cannot agree with this statement because when John does find out in the book, he forgives her and lets her decide if she still wants to marry him. I would however agree with her analysis that Tita wants to love John because of his kind actions, but cannot simply find it in her heart to do so.
She also says that Tita denies Pedro becasue of her love for john. While this is partly true in that she resisted him once, she ends up denying John marrige and consummating her love with Pedro at the end of the book before they die, thus proving that her love for Pedro takes priority over John.
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Post by ariellerussell on Aug 14, 2011 16:42:07 GMT -4
First off, I would like to thank Austin for writing a great entry that really furthered my insight into the novel. Upon reflection, I completely agree with Austin's assessment that the onion in the beginning of the book represents Tita's love for Pedro. Like an onion, Laura Esquival brilliantly tells the story of Tita's love woes, by figuratively peeling away layers in Tita's life, until she is finally able to reach and express her undying love for Pedro, without fear of retaliation from others. While I fully agree with Austin that an onion represents love and especially Tita's love, I believe it simultaneously depicts Tita's life as well. Both Tita's love and her whole existence are intertwined. Each trial and tribulation that Tita experiences in her life to get closer to Pedro's love, represents a layer of an onion. The story begins (the first layers) with Tita being an outcast in her family essentially from birth. Tita soon finds out that she is stuck under an unbearable family tradition, that she can't escape from. From a young age Tita realizes her love for Pedro but she is unable to profess this love in public. As Tita grows up and time passes throughout the novel, she has to continually endure heart break after heart break until she is finally able to reach the "core" of her onion: being able to freely be with the love of her life. Like Austin expressed, onions are an ugly vegetable that causes pain as you pull away layers to get to the core. Tita had to shed a countless amount of tears in her life before she could reach Pedro, who was the core of her existence. From birth Tita had a horribly, "ugly" life. She went through a range of different obstacles and emotions before she could get to the love she was destined for. And even though Tita's love for Pedro was pure and sweet, in order to get to it, she had to go through pain to reach it. And as Austin said, love causes just as much pain as it does pleasure (similar to an onion). Tita experienced this reality her whole life, and she felt firsthand the effects of the pain one must at times go through in order to get to true love.
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Post by thorntonkelsey on Aug 14, 2011 16:49:29 GMT -4
I somewhat do not agree with Mackenzie and her view that Tita does not believe in traditions. If Tita did not believe in traditions, I do not think she would have stayed with Mama Elena for so long. She had to have some respect for her culture's traditions because she obeyed Mama Elena for months after Mama Elena started playing with Tita as if she were a little doll. Though, I agree with Mackenzie that Mama Elena is slowly killing Tita, emotionally, but I feel like everyone is so quick to say Tita is the victim. Tita could have walked out of that house at any point, but she choose not to. I think she choose not to because she believes in her traditions. As the youngest also she seemed to have the most responsibility, especially for Mama Elena. Another thought though as to why she did not leave sooner than she did was because she probably also kept hoping Mama Elena would get off her back. There was a short period of time where it seemed Mama Elena backed off, but then took everything to the next level by sending her nephew, her sister, and Pedro away. I agree with Mackenzie that Tita is too caught up in her mother’s opinion. However, I think Tita is always in that state of mind, even when she lives with John. Her act of silence with John is caused because Tita is overwhelmed with what decisions and choices to make on her own since Mama Elena has always done that for her. Also, as Mackenzie points out that Tita was so used to Mama Elena’s voice in the back of her head even after Mama Elena passed she which I agree with.
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Post by Jaspreet Bachra on Aug 14, 2011 17:11:18 GMT -4
"I know who I am! A person who has a perfect right to live her life as she pleases. Once and for all, leave me alone; I won't put up with you!"
Tita says this to Mama Elena expressing her feeling towards Mama Elena’s absurd wishes. Mama Elena has controlled Tita her whole life, even denying approval for her to marry her true love. I must say that I do not approve of Mama Elena’s way of raising Tita and giving her little to no freedom.
At age sixteen I do not think a parent should have a “tight leash” on their teenagers, especially not one as tight as the one Mama Elena had on Tita. However, I do not agree with the opinion of how 16 year olds should start making all the decisions. I think teens should have a big say in what they would like to head towards, though, I do not think it should completely be up to them. At such an age things can quickly turn for the worst. Sixteen is an age for growth, knowledge, and mistakes. Yes, they should be able to make smaller decisions, but not long-term decisions. At sixteen much of a teens influence is who they surround themselves with, for example the kids at their school or around the neighborhood. Sometimes, those kids can be negative influences, and sometimes positive.
People are made to want closure and a feeling of “fitting in”, and if at that time they need to “fit in” with the wrong group, parents should take a strong stand and say no to an inexperienced child. The small decisions that parents allow teens to make, though they may be regretful, are the ones that teach teens valuable lessons without making such a big impact on the teens life.
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Post by Katie Jackson on Aug 14, 2011 17:31:07 GMT -4
Michael's post took a totally different approach and brought a new outlook on the book's plot. Rather than looking at things from Tita's side, he chose Rosaura's side. Which is why I chose his post to reply to.
For most of the book, I was only seeing things from Tita's side. I only felt the hurt for her through all of it, considering her sister married her true love. But Michael made a point, how would it have felt to be in Rosaura's position? She knew her sister was in love with her husband and in the the end having a heavy affair with him. And in the end all she gets out of the situation is gaining weight and smelly body odors. That does not seem fair at all.
I'm sure Rosaura did feel bad about marrying her sister, and she even mentioned that during one of the only civil talks between Rosaura and Tita. At one point, Rosaura even trusted in Tita to tell her about her various body odors to try and get help. Tita did try to help, but how awful it was that she didn't admit to everything that had been going on with her and Pedro during that conversation. To me, that is a horrible thing to do to your sister.
Tita knew all along that it was not Rosaura who offered to marry Pedro, it was Mama Elena. She never took herself out of the pity party and continued to hold harsh grudges against her sister. Maybe if Tita had put herself in Rosaura's shoes, she would have known that marrying John really was the better choice for her, and the sake of her family's happiness. Michael's post made me take an entirely different approach to this story and helped me look at the other side.
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Post by Mackensey Saxton on Aug 14, 2011 17:50:17 GMT -4
Ben's observations and thoughts seemed spot-on to me, particularly those regarding John. Throughout the book, Esquivel creates pity and sympathy for Tita. This poor girl was forced to watch her sister marry her "soul mate," condemned to a life of servitude, and constantly degraded by an uncaring mother. Tita occasionally finds things to take comfort in (cooking, the quilt she makes, caring for Rosaura and Pedro's child etc.), but her life isn't great. Enter Dr. John Brown, a genuinely caring and loving man. John rescues Tita from her miserable existence, nurses her back to health, and tries to restore some happiness in her life. John is Tita's knight in shining armor; not only does he rescue her, but he also loves her and decides to marry her. When John tells Mama Elena of his plans, she protests violently. Despite that, John "had resolved to marry Tita with our without Mama Elena's permission." Unlike Pedro, John didn't care about traditions or restrictions set out by Mama Elena. His love for Tita surpassed any reluctance to break the rules he may have had. While this may not have been the most responsible or respectful decision, it still showed the depth of his character's feelings. John truly loved Tita whereas Pedro lusted for her. Ben brings up the point that Mama Elena's denial of Pedro's "love" for Tita was not misplaced. After all, if Tita would have obeyed her mother, maybe John would not have been hurt. If we take this into consideration, Tita doesn't seem like a victim. The true victim of this story is Dr. John Brown, a noble man whose help and love was forgotten when sexual attraction was reintroduced in Tita's life.
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Post by yanglu on Aug 14, 2011 18:15:58 GMT -4
Until Micheal mentioned the subject of Rosaura being a victim of suffering in the book, I had never in my mind ever thought of that. The point that he makes of her being portrayed by the author as the evil sister in the family, and of how she had to live with Pedro and Tita under a commitment thought she would let them have, basically a in your face affair. With these points, you truly try to reread the book now with a different mental attitude about Rosaura, and by doing so, you truly get a understanding of how the suffering that suffering that Tita had to go through in the first half of the book, moves on to the placement of Rosaura's suffering to the hand's of Rosaura in the later half of the book. It seems to be that throughout the novel, there really is no end to the suffering. It only transfers from one person to another. In aspect, every character in the novel, each had their own sufferings to go through, Tita with the suffering of life without Pedro, Rosaura, with suffering of Pedro loving someone else, and even Mother Elena. when she was not allowed to marry the man that she loves, due to his ancestry. With these points, in the end, I truly grasp and understand the concept of how Rosaura was also a victim of suffering in this novel. But to say that Rosaura was the true victim of suffering in the novel is an idea that i disagree with. Although in the end, Rosaura died from her suffering, the suffering that she endured is nothing comparable to the suffering that Tita had to endured for so many years, before she was happy. Rosaura, in my opinion only had the suffering of Pedro not loving her, and having a affair with Tita, but had to go through years of suffering caused by close deaths( Nacha and Roberto), suffering from old traditions that made unable to marry not just Pedro, but anyone in that matter, as well as suffering caused by years of abuse, neglect that Mother Elena caused her. In end, every character in the story had their times of suffering, but it was Tita, who suffered the most. It really is such a pity.
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Karleigh Lattnovich
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Post by Karleigh Lattnovich on Aug 14, 2011 18:41:12 GMT -4
From the very beginning, Tita is seen as the character who deserves all the pity. For the majority of the book, she is the one that I gave most of my pity to, as I’m sure most readers did as well. Ben makes a very valid point when he talks of how Tita had a prime opportunity to change her life and make something of herself, but she threw that chance away. Were her feelings for Pedro really love, or were they just teen lust? John would have made her life much better, as Ben said, he was the much more “mature” choice. He could give her an actual life, whereas Pedro was still immature and acted childishly as he was sneaking around behind his wife’s back with Tita. He didn’t have to marry Rosaura, and yet he chose to, which should have been a red flag to Tita that she needed to move on. When John came and saved Tita from Mama Elena and cared for her, she was actually content and happy finally for the first time in her life. When faced with the choice between John and Pedro, she should have taken that into consideration. Pedro brought her nothing but stress and pain. Why would any mature woman choose that kind of relationship over a real, loving one? Ben makes a very good argument with this passage being an option for Tita to prove herself, and make the reader realize she deserved all the pity she was given. Instead, she ruins that image that was built up for her by choosing Pedro, when John would have been much better for her in the end.
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Post by candacebullock on Aug 14, 2011 19:06:50 GMT -4
I couldn’t agree more with Kourtney Yamafuji’s take on Esquivel’s use of food in Like Water for Chocolate. It played a huge role in Tita’s expression. Mama Elena had always stifled Tita from expressing her true emotions but she couldn’t stifle Tita’s expression in her food. In a way, I feel that is why Tita was such a wonderful cook, she put her emotions into the food and it came out in the taste and influenced the reactions of those who ate the dish. For instance, Tita had made the dish for Pedro and Rosaura’s wedding without feeling too well with the wedding itself and it resulted in the entire wedding becoming ill. This theory also explains why Mama Elena never took too kindly to the dishes Tita made. She would often claim it to be “too salty” and even ridden with poison towards the end of the book and this was because she could taste the passion that Tita put in her food and the bitterness and hatred.
Although, what I found most interesting about Kourtney’s post was the mention of foreshadowing in the recipes at the beginning of chapters. I never really considered it foreshadowing, but the way she explained it, it made sense that the recipes had as much to do with the events in the book as the dialogue. I found that an interesting way to set up the book on Esquivel’s part because it really brings home the fact that cooking wasn’t just a hobby for Tita, but a part of life.
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Post by Olivia Horan on Aug 14, 2011 19:08:20 GMT -4
I agree with most of Candace’s bold statements with a few qualifications. I agree that Tita wasn’t ever truly able to cross the line and do whatever she pleased, which makes her seem like the exact opposite of a hero. She always talked of things that she wanted to go out and do, but never had the audacity to completely put herself out there and do them as Gertrudis was able to do. As much as she would despise this conclusion, she was very similar to Mama Elena. Instead of continuing in undying pursuit of her lover, she gave in to her mother’s desires, just as Mama Elena did when she found true love. Gertrudis, on the other hand, was able to completely break free of the shackles that Mama Elena forced on all of her children. Gertrudis, however, did not have quite as many chains weighing her down. Tita, being the youngest, was supposed to stay on the ranch her whole life to take care of her mother, but merely defying this for a short time had to have taken every ounce of courage that she was able to muster. She was brought back to the ranch when Mama Elena was sick not because of lack of courage but because of guilt.
Tita took a giant leap away from where she was supposed to be towards where she wanted to be. It took years to gather the bravery to do it, but she was finally able to. If this does not show a hero, I don't know what does. Her continued dedication to try to gratify her mother, however, proves that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
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Post by Adriana Seni on Aug 14, 2011 19:39:29 GMT -4
I used to watch all of the Disney princess movies, well who am I kidding, I still do. So I believe those classic tails make me act like such a “girl” when it comes to romance: I root for the lovers to prevail in their unjust situations. I am a complete sucker for “true love” so it was a natural instinct for me to believe that Tita and Pedro were in love and the evil Mama Elena ruined it for them. Throughout the whole book I wished the family would come together in the end and sing a happy, uplifting song; then after the song, Tita and Pedro would ride off into the sunset and live happily ever after. This book was obviously not a Disney princess story.
When I read Ben’s blog posting, his thoughts on Tita and Pedro’s love really opened my eyes to the fact that their “love” was actually just plain lust. Even at the beginning of Ben’s blog I was trying to defend Tita’s decision to go with Pedro, but then Ben won me over when he wrote “…Tita jumps on the first opportunity for a hookup with Pedro and leaves John in the dust…” that statement right there says it all. As soon as John left, Pedro jumped on the band wagon and seduced Tita. Did Tita try to stop him? no. She even knew that she couldn’t be trusted alone with Pedro when John left for the United States, but she didn’t do a thing about it. If she really loved Pedro, tita wouldn’t have even agreed to marry John. She only agreed in order to get back at Pedro for marrying Rosaura. This can be proven by the discussion between Pedro and Tita on pages 148-149. Tita tells Pedro “When you were going to get married, I didn’t ask you not to do it, even though your wedding destroyed me. You have your life, now leave me in peace to have mine!” Now I’m no relationship expert, but that sounds quite vengeful to me.
Ben made another good point when he wrote “It is just then for her and pedro's lives to be ended in their final act of lust, because there is no further their relationship can go besides sex. Her gratefulness towards John for saving her proves easily forgotten as she travels to the afterlife with Pedro.” Throughout the novel when Esquivel writes about Tita and Pedro’s interactions, she only writes of the physical desires Pedro harnesses inside. There wasn’t one conversation between Tita and Pedro that told the audience of what it was exactly that they loved about each other. On that note, they didn’t even have conversations; so what was it that they “loved” about each other? So it is only fitting that Tita and Pedro die when making “their final act of lust”; there was nowhere else for their relationship to go. Tita even admitted she only wanted to stay alive to have sex many more times with Pedro. On page 244 Esquivel lets us into Tita’s thoughts when she says “She didn’t want to die. She wanted to explore these emotions many more times. This was just the beginning.”
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